look what i found guys

[4G63Turbo]

very interesting
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18029

i don't know what to think about this :cry:

[tiger025]

the inquirer? i just hope it's not related to the national inquirer :lol:

[The Duke]

It's pretty ****ty journalism as well.

"Everyone is gonna buy the doom 3 engine, but not many will buy HL2 one"???

What the **** does he know? It's a pretty bold statement to say when he's got very little and weak arguments.

"This leads us to the future. HL2, for all its gameplay is a last generation engine. It looks good, very good in fact, but it is a year old, and things like Far Cry and Doom have passed it by"

He must be joking. It's not solely the eye candy that makes the engine of the game. Look at the way they have developed a 'weight' system in HL2. I haven't seen a game to compare yet. (although I must admit, I haven't played much of Far Cry and Doom 3)

He states that ATi is now rebadging old cards to sell off as newer generation. Geforces MX series isn't much better.

And EVEN WORSE, HIS SPELLING AND GRAMMAR IS SHOCKING!!!!

[DVD-Man]

Yeah.. I agree with some of Dukes points...

This guy sounds like he enjoys bashing ATI a little too much & has taken every opportunity to praise Nvidia & bash ATI.. so I'm gonna try & not read too much into this.



He states that ATi is now rebadging old cards to sell off as newer generation. Geforces MX series isn't much better.


Damm straight... 5200 card is just a re-badged MX card for one thing.

[4G63Turbo]

aight thanks guys, ya it seems like he is a nvidia guy :duh:
i am more then happy with my x800 :headbang:

[-MrWill-]

AS AM I!!!! hopefully the catalyst 4.9 drivers will help doom 3 a bit, after all they are meant for doom 3

[TechDude]

True, Duke and DVD-Man. Id is not very fond of licensing their engine to other companies.....

[bulliedn2silence]

i emailed him and he replied with some lame answers...there saved on my email at work...i'll post em when I get a chance

[DVD-Man]

Neat... sounds interesting! :headbang:

[Luke]

I dunno Fella's...i think the man has some very valid points. That he comes across as an nvidia fanboy is undeniable, but their is truth in what he is saying.

I went to firingsquad and looked at a review of the upcoming geforce 6600 gt, and for the most part this card absolutely owns the 9800 pro and has a healthy lead usually over the 9800xt also. This is very good performance from a mid-range card expected to retail at around 200 US.

Nvidia really does seem to be setting some wrongs right, and i am starting to think maybe i should have held off on buying my new radeon 9800 pro for the system im about to build in a few days. thinking maybe i should sell it off now whilst its still brand new and go back to nvidia [always been nvidia card owner myself, but am not a 'fanboy']

[TechDude]

Well, i dunno.

[Reve]

ya I think the guy has something against ATI. but I must agree with him on less people licensing HL2 engine than Doom3 in the future. and I wouldn't have said this if I hadn't seen this video footage in gamespot http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/halflife2/media.html. it's official movie 10, and in the end you see the crane picking up a huge container, but somehow the shadow of the crane casts through the container, on the ground. you will never find anything like this in doom3 (because of the unified nature of its engine), or probably in games that do look similar to HL2, or even better, like F.E.A.R. but this is rather a bold statement and we all like to disagree with it because we all like HL2 the game. the engine, IMO is getting a bit old. I know how we all cherished the moment we saw those barrels falling down in their first Tech Demo, but that was like 2 years ago. and you even see Max Payne 2 doing it (using advanced Havok engine). and how many games have been licensing Cormak's quake engine? I think we're gonna see the same thing again.

[Reve]

another funny thing: the original half-life licensed id's engine :shock:
http://half-life.sierra.com/cindex.html

[Crazy Crazy Doctor]

Hmmm, that's a strange fact... Half-Life still had a better single player game then id or anyone had made at that point in time

[Reve]

true true, and I completely agree with that. and personally I think in terms of gameplay HL2 is just gonna KICK ASS :headbang: :mrgreen: I'm just saying it's important to distinguish between an advanced engine and a good game. who knows, maybe they use Doom3, or FEAR engine for HL3?! :lol: (one more thing, if you go to havok.com you see HL2 among the games powered my havok, so a major part of the physics in the game actually uses Havok's engine (like MaxPayne2, DeusEx: Invisible War, etc)

[Crazy Crazy Doctor]

Yeah, hl2 uses a heavily modified Havok physics model

[DWells]

The physics in HL2 gives Max Payne 2 a heavy beating with it's own severed ragdoll limbs.

I've played around with a nearly-finished version of HL2's pyhsics engine, and let me tell you, this must of been their priority. THe game had no AI, missing textures, sounds, menus, options, etc. but the physics were amazing. So, I opened up the console and loaded up the gravity gun and pistol for me (toyed aroud with the SMG later)

I shot up some wood - it breaks and splinters like wood, falls and bounces up a tiny bit like wood. I picked it up with the gravity gun and chucked it in some findly rendered water, producing a nice, realistic splash with real rendered waves (not just a texture). It goes under water a little and floats to the top. Picked up a pot, and threw it against the wall, shattered like hardened clay (and I've actually shattered clay before). Watermelons break like watermelons.

This was a slightly pre-E3 2003 build. The demonstration level with the plinko pegs and barrels in a pyramid on a ledge on the wall I played (along with a few others). Shooting didn't do anything to know the ledge down. So I targeted on its edge with the gravity gun, and pulled down that edge (the screen gave me a display of the weight and physic properties of the item in my corner). The barrels shifted and rolled into the plinko wall, bouncing off peg from peg, extremely real, then splashing in the water, being empty they floated.

There was a mattress lying arounds, so I picked it up by the corner, and threw it. Physics were perfect, since I held it buy the corner, the rest sort of sloped still on the ground, very real. It floated. I found some heavy object (ball or something) and threw it in, splashing and sinking. I swam under water to see where it sunk to, and came back to land, pulling it up with my Gravity Gun. I then placed it on the left half of the mattress. It caved in, and sunk down soimewhat, letting somewater flow on. The ball then rolled off. The mattress was capable of supporting some lighter objects and floating. The mattress had a shape/figure, but would still drape over (not like a thin blanket) barrels.

Lucky for me, there was a skinned dead body in the corner, draped against the wall. No clipping at all, perfectly supported. Nothing I had tested clipped at all. This was fun. The pegs on the wall that made it a giant plink machine, well I let the guy fall through it. Amazing. Clonking body parts, with arms not unrealistically flailing. The neck snapped back when it hit its head, and took a blow landing square center on a peg.bouncing up and falling to the right. Absolutely amazing. He fell into the water, splashing, went under for a little and then rose bqck to the surface, rippling the water again. I then picked him up for more experimentation. Where you pick him up with the gun matters. Holding his head still, moving the body made him do a little jig. I held him with one foot. The other leg drooped down, and it's weight pulled some of the body towards the side too. The arms and hands dangled. Then I grapped it and slammed it against a peg horizontally. The waist hit square on, so, the arms and legs and head go forward, while the body stayed curved. I wish I had a screenshot. Here's my best visual - see below, equals sign is the peg (he's not hitting the pointy front, he's hitting the long side jutting from the wall).
_o
=|
/


Absolutely amazing. HavoK is great, but they must have rewritten 75% of that. And best of all - I suffred no performance issues. It was running 45-60FPS at 1024x768 High on DX9. Didn't go down when physics were in effect. This was a pre-E3 2003 build (very close to E3 2003), and I don't know if the engine is still this good. I hope it is.

[Reve]

yeah I think a lot of us or atleast quite a few of us have played that pre E3 2003 version (although I'm not sure if it's actually ok to talk about it ;) :lol: ) but yeah I agree that physics in that game is just amazing, and it's also a big part of the game. IMO there's no game right now that incorporates physics so much in the game (throwing barrels at the enemy for a beautiful kill etc.) but I just hope they have improved the graphics or atleast have fixed some of the issues (like with the shadowing as I said before) because when you wanna license an engine, graphics are very important. you could improve the physics of an engine but I don't think anybody has the brain of John Cormak to write a better algorithm for lightening, shadowing etc. and that's what should matter to graphic card companies. cause physics is solely handled by CPU. but I think altogether it's a good thing that ATI and nVidia are now so close together in this competition, cause I think now they're gonna work their ass off and hopefully we're gonna see more improvements and the next generation of cards sooner :mrgreen:

[Crazy Crazy Doctor]

I don't wanna see them sooner, sooner means more money for me to spend :cry:
Well, I've been playing CS: Source, and yeah the coffee tables splinter realistically and the watermelons explode (i assume) realistically. The people never died and slumpt over unrealistically. Though i did play on one server with jacked up physics (you shoot a barrel and the thing goes flying 20 feet, and this is with a pistol...kinda makes you feel powerful i guess) they still died pretty realistically, even though they flew against the wall when they died. And the game runs perfectly on my comp, with everything except anti-aliasing (2x instead of 6x) turned up as high as it can go. This engine is more about subtleness then all out graphical goodness...and that's kinda why real life (usually :| ) looks beautiful :D

[Reve]

dead bodies fly against the wall?! that seems to be a lot of fun actually :mrgreen: ok here's a benchmark for CS: Source posted on gamespot: http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-102-789-12-12-x&body_pagenum=3
apparently nVidia is the winner in the lower resolutions (up to 1024x768) but ATI takes the lead when they increase the resolution in the stress test. I guess it all depends, me, my monitor doesn't go over 1024x768 anyways, so... but it's still interesting

[Crazy Crazy Doctor]

Yeah, that's the highest my monitor can go too...i wish it could go higher though...